Royal New Zealand Naval Association Inc

Proposed unification of ERNA/RNZNA

Minutes of a special meeting held at the RNZN Associations Christchurch
Branch clubrooms, at 1000 Sunday September 11th 2005

Subject – Proposed unification of ERNA/RNZNA

Present were:
Trevor Wylde - National President ex Royal Navalmen's Association, Ron Mayell - National President Royal New Zealand Naval Association, Mike Hewson - President ERNA Christchurch branch, Fay Wilkinson - Secretary ERNA Christchurch branch
Rick Ritchie - Vice President ERNA Christchurch branch, Ian Middlemiss - committee ERNA Christchurch branch, Wally Donald - committee ERNA Christchurch branch, Neil Jones - Vice President RNZNA Christchurch branch, Frank Jefferies - councillor, secretary RNZNA Papanui RSA branch, Bill Lochrie - National secretary RNZNA, Dennis Moffat - National treasurer RNZNA

Trevor Wylde chaired the meeting, and Bill Lochrie recorded the minutes.

Trevor opened the meeting and made the following statement. “I have come here today with an open mind and no set agenda. I am not going to say we want this and we want that. This is not the way I work so lets all have a say, put our thoughts together, and see if we can sort something out. It is good that I attended the RNZNA conference yesterday, and it is good that we have assembled here today because as the representative of the RNZRSA they are looking forward to a report on today’s proceedings. CN RAD Ledson is very interested on the results of today’s meeting and is always asking how things are going as is the National president of the RSA John Campbell who has even offered to sit in on any meetings and help us out if he can. We have got a lot of people behind us with positive thinking; there are obviously a few things that need to be tided up. We have to do it right, and to do it properly. We are going to get those who are going to agree and those that are going to disagree on both sides. I had 17 years as the sec/man of an RSA and I had enemies, and if I didn't have enemies I would not have been doing my job properly. You have got to say no to some people, and probably upset a few. Where to start?

Trevor then suggested he would like to go around the table and have everyone give us their thoughts on how we can go about the task of amalgamation/unity.

Trevor invited Frank Jefferies to open the speaking - Frank said that he did not have any thoughts, but he would like to know what Trevor had to say about the matter. Trevor reminded us again that he was open-minded and this was only his opinion. He felt that the name Royal New Zealand Naval Association should be the name. The word ex in front of a title should be removed - ex means you have got to leave the navy to come into it, so therefore serving members can join us. The badge - the current ERNA badge with the white ensign is the way to go. The make up of the committee is much the same in the rules of both associations - President, Secretary, Treasure etc Trevor said he would like to see both secretaries work together in the new association. Both have got different ideas and skills and we do not want to lose either of them. Perhaps one could look after the South while the other does the North Island? (Brain Gill – ERNA, Bill Lochrie RNZNA) The Rules are very similar and it would not take much to alter them where necessary to suite the new association. Dennis Moffat said things like capitation fees, stationery, life memberships, slops list, etc will all have to be considered.

Trevor asked Frank if he would like to reply to his comments. Frank replied that Trevor’s outline was excellent, and that his ideas were the same as the RNZNA council. Trevor made it quite clear that his statement was his alone and not those of the ERNA national council, no real discussion had gone ahead yet but Trevor only wanted to meet today to get the general feeling of the meeting before taking it back to his people. The next ERNA council meeting will coincide with the Cruiser Reunion being held in New Plymouth during Easter weekend 06. Trevor has invited members of the RNZNA council to attend the meeting and talk about what is being discussed today – unity. Unity will not happen over night and we have a long way to go. A remit had been passed at the RNZNA Conference yesterday that conferences be held biennially. Trevor had suggested that the conference be held in
Palmerston North in 2007, and all going well we have a combined meeting and form the new naval association.

Trevor said he will be back in Christchurch in February, and he would like to call another meeting to see where we have progressed since this meeting today. Trevor will be putting out a report to ERNA to get feedback from the branches, and repeated that he would like to see members of the RNZNA council at the ERNA conference in New Plymouth to meet and see just how far we have progressed with the concept of unification. This hopefully will see a combined conference of both associations in
Palmerston North in two years time to finalise amalgamation. Bill Lochrie asked Trevor that the concept of amalgamation will have to be nationally and not just within Christchurch. Trevor replied that three areas had a branch each of both associations that is Christchurch, Auckland and Tauranga. The sooner the members of these areas get together and start dialogue going the better. There will be those that will oppose any unity that may take place but in all cases the majority rules adage will be the final outcome in all areas. Those that do not want unity will be left out on their own. 95% of the ERNA branches support this idea. Frank said that as far as the RNZNA was concerned we were agreeable to any thing as far as rule changes to accommodate both associations were concerned and this should not be any problem as was said previously both rules are very similar but the name was not negotiable. Ron Mayell said that the national council of the RNZNA had tried to achieve what was being discussed today for some years now but without success. Ron felt that now it seems we are making good progress and the gates open lets not shut it. A new constitution/rules would have to be drawn up to satisfy both associations and then we would have to inform the Incorporated Societies of the change but this is no big deal as there is proviso in both sets of rules to do this, as long as the majority of members agree.

Trevor said that many members were members of both associations, and he would like to see the lists of both associations to see just how many were. The RNZNA has to date 819 members nationally, this includes deceased members. The procedure for joining the RNZNA was you fill out the application form, mail it to the PO Box number with joining fee. Your application is then checked and then processed by the national secretary. You are given a plastic membership card and number with your details, also the association lapel badge and a copy of the national rules. Your details are entered into the membership database. You are a member of the national body for life, you do not pay an annual subscription unless you are a member of a branch. Capitation fees are paid two the national body annually – currently $2.00 per member. Trevor then asked shipmate Mike Hewson what his thoughts were. Mike replied that he had for some years now been an advocate of changing the name, and we should all be together. His thoughts were that we all served in the same navy at different times whether you be a stoker, dabtoe or stores rating, we were all part of a ships company. At the moment we are separated, but we meet at different naval activities and services regularly here in Christchurch. We should be enjoying one another’s company in a more permanent way; we are all getting longer in the tooth. Mike said it was a full time job visiting sick members at home and in hospital.

Trevor said that those that have negative thoughts and do not agree with what is proposed here today will be on the outer – that is they will be on their own. He went on to say that the first steps toward unity should take place here in Christchurch where the split occurred in the first place. Trevor was to have attended a meeting of the RNZRSA this weekend but chose to be with us today to voice his belief that unity has got to happen and he felt that we were on the verge of a new era and he hoped that it would continue. If we do get any hiccups, we talk our way around it and sort it out the only way matelots can. We do not want people talking about things in the background – if you have any genuine comments on what is being discussed today, bring it out in the open and not behind closed doors. Cant and wont is not on our agenda. Wally Donald said we are all getting older, and as far as he could see we are not getting the younger one’s who are in the navy now to join us. Trevor said the RSA’s were having the same problem attracting the younger veterans, and it is usually 10 to 15 years before they want to join a veterans association. Wally went on to say that all the more reason why unity of the two naval associations should go ahead before we will fade away.

Frank Jefferies said that he would like to see a branch in every RSA throughout the country. They need our support. The EX RN’s Dunedin branch is operating from the same building in a very successful relationship. Mike said that we should be doing our utmost to encourage the younger people into joining, and to encourage them we have to offer them something. What this is - is not easily defined. A long discussion then took place on the navy of today and yesterday. Many felt that today’s navy does not have the comradeship that we had from the war years through Korea to the 60’s and even the 70’s. Rick Ritchie and Neil Jones gave instances of their time in the RNZN and mentioned that the camaraderie/brotherhood in today’s navy is not their as was in their time. Many felt that that people in the navy today are there for the job only and the traditions of the past are not prevalent. This may be the reason that they are not interested in joining us. Wally Donald said this is a good example of why unity should take place ASAP. Ron Mayell quoted the old adage United we stand divided we fall and nothing could be further from the truth.

Bill Lochrie was then invited by the chairman to address the meeting. Bill made comment on how he was grateful to Trevor for coming here today, and calling for this special meeting. Bill said that he had a document entitled The way forward - had been put it together some years with regard to what was being discussed today, and he felt that now was the time to read it out to those present. After reading the document to the meeting, Trevor agreed many things within were just what was being attempted here today. Bill also mentioned that a questionnaire that was circulated some years ago within the Christchurch members about affiliation with ERNA had met with a favourable response; almost all agreeing it was a good idea. Trevor then summarized what had been discussed so far. He will go to his committee and recommend the name of the naval association be the Royal New Zealand Naval Association, the ERNA badge be the badge of the new association, but reworded RNZN association. Both sets of rules were basically the same, and it would not take much to work out a set of final rules for the new association. These would be finalised at the conference in 2007. Areas with ERNA & RNZNA branches such as Auckland, Tauranga etc to get together ASAP and get dialogue going between them. Trevor wanted the Christchurch branch of both associations to meet ASAP. Bill said this will be done as soon as their respective AGM"s were over, and the new committees formed.

A vote of thanks was given to the chair from Frank Jefferies, and Ron Mayell presented Trevor with an RNZN Association lapel badge as a gesture of goodwill for what had taken place here today.

After thanking everyone for their attendance, the chairman closed the meeting at 1150.

The general consensus of almost all at the meeting was that we can make this work. So lets look toward the future and work towards making it a reality. The time to start is now - not later.

All present agreed that the concept of amalgamation should go ahead for the betterment of all.

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Royal New Zealand Naval Association Inc.